Thanks for not being afraid to tackle a topic like this!! It’s soo helpful and relieving to hear someone like Zvika affirm what is pretty much the same place I find myself, albeit, coming from a Christian upbringing (only my community was, and is, much more hostile to it). Over time, I’ve left almost all my old relationships behind because I couldn’t socialize OR worship with those people anymore. I have a small group of friends and relatives who all feel this hole where the community we lost once was. Platforming voices like Zvika’s reminds me that my old community can’t stop me from creating new ones. Thanks a ton. 🙏 Peace and Grace.
The timing of this episode was particularly important for me. My husband of 46 years (yes, I am OLD!) was diagnosed last week with possibly having ALS (still testing as it’s not 100% confirmed) and, as you can imagine, we’ve been having a lot of conversations about whether god, gods or “whatevers” exist. The same with karma. We’ve tried to live our lives as good people; being kind to others, always trying to help those we can, and not leaving harm in our wake. Yet, at the end of the day, none of this seems to matter. If this is God’s “plan,” it’s a particularly rotten one. I’m glad some people find comfort in belief. I don’t think I can.
Thanks, PJ. We now find ourselves hoping for a diagnosis that is merely “awful” instead of devastating. But, we don’t get to choose what life hands us, unfortunately.
Thanks for not being assuming, cheap, or wacky on this topic. Keep rocking the "normal person" radio persona. I think a lot of people try to host as a curious everyman, but condescension is just leaking out of the pores. You/the team seem genuinely curious, and not with a "just asking questions" disguise for pat answers.
In my existential questioning, it helps me to consider that secular and religious beliefs share similar challenges. For example: if God is omniscient and omnipotent, what is free will? If the universe is a purely material chain reaction of physical laws, what is free will?
Or the problem of evil: why would a good God allow evil? But the problem of evil in a material universe could be that evil doesn't exist -- and might will always be right, no matter how you cut it.
Thanks for publishing this interview with Zvika, I found it interesting, entertaining, and useful in my daily life. I liked in particular Zvika's definition of God, which is very close to my personal belief. I can't claim originality though, as I got the notion of God being you, me, and everything, in the past, today, and in the future from one of my favorite books of all time, Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein. This book contains many lessons about our fellow man, and religion, and God. Someday I hope to fully Grok.
As someone who grew up very Catholic, this was fascinating to me. I agree that the rules/regulations of organized religion kept me feeling distant from god. As a current non-believer, I enjoyed the nuance and lack of judgement in this episode. My favorite in a while!
So relieved to see someone finally having a conversation like this one. The commentary seems always to be about religion of the fundamentalist type, be it (typically) Judaism, Christianity or Islam. I personally agree that much fundamentalist theology falls on a spectrum somewhere between problematic and abhorrent, but the popular atheists' condemnation of fundamentalism doesn't address religious outlook and experience like mine.
The mainline Christianity of my experience (Presbyterian), while in long and persistent decline, projects in many expressions an understanding of the divine and the universe that is consistent with thought and learning since the Enlightenment.
PJ's recent experience of awe (or enchantment, or what whatever describes it) has a place in faith traditions that can be integrated more meaningfully into the interior/spiritual life that surpasses and enriches one's life more, I believe, than the reductionistic neurological explanations of atheistic promoters can allow for.
I would love to hear more episodes exploring these matters and questions. Thank you!
Enjoyed this episode as it was a kind and honest conversation with someone who often is misunderstood. I’m a religious leader is a wildly different tradition (Baptist). It’s so curious how we start with the same initial document the TANAKH, but our history and experience leads us to different conclusions about God.
On a sidenote, one of the most interesting topics that you briefly touched on was how there are expectations in our faiths of how we would likely politically land on things, but it can be dangerous to make those assumptions individually and when we think about others. For instance, so often today “evangelical” is more political statement than the theological one, and in my circles most pastors are uncomfortable with the equivocation .
This was an interesting episode but I felt really conflicted about the idea that “god” is the idea of oneness and that everything is connected. That, to me, is the human experience and the inbuilt search for understanding and meaning. I felt at the end of this episode that it was oversimplified because the problem with the concept of god is religion. While I understand the need for some to seek out community and tribes, don’t all forms of religion have an element of control and therefore oppression?
It reminded me of an episode of Oprah where she argued with an audience member that because they were caring and had faith in people- that faith IS god.
I think that you can be curious and wonder about the “oneness of existence” without needing to subscribe to a religion and in fact religions manipulate and exploit those feelings in people.
Also, the dancefloor… I would argue that that is where you are truly free and you are all connected in that freedom. Which is ironic given the lack of freedom in religion.
And surfing… I just find it so interesting that the times when he is free and connected to people and / or nature is when he feels closest to his god.
Thank you for this episode. I don't know anymore if I would call myself "culturally Jewish" or "Jewish Jewish", and in the wake of having a child and seeing my identity upended, I've been wondering whether faith, or even just ritual, could be an anchoring point. Like PJ, I don't know that I can decide to just believe in something. But since becoming a parent, there is something I would like to believe, if I could simply decide to: that as a person I matter by my existence alone, not just by virtue of what I can do for others. In the Judaism I recall, the belief in the ultimate value of any human life stems from the notion that we are all made "in God's image". I find Zvika's answer easier to digest: each life matters because each life is, ultimately, part of God itself. I don't know that I believe either of those things, but I am reminded that there is meaning just in the act of contemplating.
I love this question and enjoyed listening to two deep thinkers bat it around, but I can't not state the obvious: you invited a self described "progressive Jewish leader" who failed to use this platform to condemn the genocide of Palestinian people (and from what I've found on the internet continually fails to do so on any other platform). It should go without saying that Israel does not equal Judaism and that the genocide is a purely political atrocity, but there were so many opportunities for Zvika to point out the gross contradiction between Jewish religious beliefs and the genocidal actions of the Israeli state. For instance, what a beautiful and profound definition of Yahweh that God is everything that ever was, is, or will be. So how can Zionists justify the systematic murder of 35,000 people, if they, too, hold the light of God? Where is this ethos of "surrender" amid a state who refuses a ceasefire? What makes this rabbi progressive, if he is not using his platform to promote peace? I wish you had asked these questions.
A very interesting interview! As an non-believer (as in a-theist, not necessarily anti-theist) coming from a secular upbringing it is fascinating to hear about the type of mental gymnastics people go through to square religious beliefs (and practises and upbringing) with reality.
The part about a god not being present, even in a very religious childhood, was new to me, but made perfect sense. I see it as the minds way to deal with cognitive dissonance.
I don’t know how accessible he is, but I think Neal Brennan would be an excellent guest to talk to on this subject. He’s been on both sides of the fence and I, for one, would be fascinated to hear a conversation between you two.
Thanks for not being afraid to tackle a topic like this!! It’s soo helpful and relieving to hear someone like Zvika affirm what is pretty much the same place I find myself, albeit, coming from a Christian upbringing (only my community was, and is, much more hostile to it). Over time, I’ve left almost all my old relationships behind because I couldn’t socialize OR worship with those people anymore. I have a small group of friends and relatives who all feel this hole where the community we lost once was. Platforming voices like Zvika’s reminds me that my old community can’t stop me from creating new ones. Thanks a ton. 🙏 Peace and Grace.
The timing of this episode was particularly important for me. My husband of 46 years (yes, I am OLD!) was diagnosed last week with possibly having ALS (still testing as it’s not 100% confirmed) and, as you can imagine, we’ve been having a lot of conversations about whether god, gods or “whatevers” exist. The same with karma. We’ve tried to live our lives as good people; being kind to others, always trying to help those we can, and not leaving harm in our wake. Yet, at the end of the day, none of this seems to matter. If this is God’s “plan,” it’s a particularly rotten one. I’m glad some people find comfort in belief. I don’t think I can.
Randy, I’m so sorry.
Thanks, PJ. We now find ourselves hoping for a diagnosis that is merely “awful” instead of devastating. But, we don’t get to choose what life hands us, unfortunately.
Thanks for not being assuming, cheap, or wacky on this topic. Keep rocking the "normal person" radio persona. I think a lot of people try to host as a curious everyman, but condescension is just leaking out of the pores. You/the team seem genuinely curious, and not with a "just asking questions" disguise for pat answers.
In my existential questioning, it helps me to consider that secular and religious beliefs share similar challenges. For example: if God is omniscient and omnipotent, what is free will? If the universe is a purely material chain reaction of physical laws, what is free will?
Or the problem of evil: why would a good God allow evil? But the problem of evil in a material universe could be that evil doesn't exist -- and might will always be right, no matter how you cut it.
PJ,
Thanks for publishing this interview with Zvika, I found it interesting, entertaining, and useful in my daily life. I liked in particular Zvika's definition of God, which is very close to my personal belief. I can't claim originality though, as I got the notion of God being you, me, and everything, in the past, today, and in the future from one of my favorite books of all time, Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein. This book contains many lessons about our fellow man, and religion, and God. Someday I hope to fully Grok.
Thanks, keep up the great work!
Loved this episode. Also thank you for posting the Board meeting as I wasn't able to attend at the end of May!
I know I'm late to the game, but in case anyone is interested in at least ONE Orthodox Jewish rabbi's response to this episode, here are my thoughts: https://rabbischneeweiss.substack.com/p/four-insights-from-a-jewish-renewal
I loved this. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for doing what you do! I may not preach "The Gospel," but I've preached the PJ Vogt gospel for years, and will continue to do so!
As someone who grew up very Catholic, this was fascinating to me. I agree that the rules/regulations of organized religion kept me feeling distant from god. As a current non-believer, I enjoyed the nuance and lack of judgement in this episode. My favorite in a while!
This was a beautiful episode.
Something about the way he talks about YHWH landed different this time. Super interesting to hear his interpretation - Thanks for this!
So relieved to see someone finally having a conversation like this one. The commentary seems always to be about religion of the fundamentalist type, be it (typically) Judaism, Christianity or Islam. I personally agree that much fundamentalist theology falls on a spectrum somewhere between problematic and abhorrent, but the popular atheists' condemnation of fundamentalism doesn't address religious outlook and experience like mine.
The mainline Christianity of my experience (Presbyterian), while in long and persistent decline, projects in many expressions an understanding of the divine and the universe that is consistent with thought and learning since the Enlightenment.
PJ's recent experience of awe (or enchantment, or what whatever describes it) has a place in faith traditions that can be integrated more meaningfully into the interior/spiritual life that surpasses and enriches one's life more, I believe, than the reductionistic neurological explanations of atheistic promoters can allow for.
I would love to hear more episodes exploring these matters and questions. Thank you!
I relate as an Anglican Christian.
Enjoyed this episode as it was a kind and honest conversation with someone who often is misunderstood. I’m a religious leader is a wildly different tradition (Baptist). It’s so curious how we start with the same initial document the TANAKH, but our history and experience leads us to different conclusions about God.
On a sidenote, one of the most interesting topics that you briefly touched on was how there are expectations in our faiths of how we would likely politically land on things, but it can be dangerous to make those assumptions individually and when we think about others. For instance, so often today “evangelical” is more political statement than the theological one, and in my circles most pastors are uncomfortable with the equivocation .
This was an interesting episode but I felt really conflicted about the idea that “god” is the idea of oneness and that everything is connected. That, to me, is the human experience and the inbuilt search for understanding and meaning. I felt at the end of this episode that it was oversimplified because the problem with the concept of god is religion. While I understand the need for some to seek out community and tribes, don’t all forms of religion have an element of control and therefore oppression?
It reminded me of an episode of Oprah where she argued with an audience member that because they were caring and had faith in people- that faith IS god.
I think that you can be curious and wonder about the “oneness of existence” without needing to subscribe to a religion and in fact religions manipulate and exploit those feelings in people.
Also, the dancefloor… I would argue that that is where you are truly free and you are all connected in that freedom. Which is ironic given the lack of freedom in religion.
And surfing… I just find it so interesting that the times when he is free and connected to people and / or nature is when he feels closest to his god.
Thank you for this episode. I don't know anymore if I would call myself "culturally Jewish" or "Jewish Jewish", and in the wake of having a child and seeing my identity upended, I've been wondering whether faith, or even just ritual, could be an anchoring point. Like PJ, I don't know that I can decide to just believe in something. But since becoming a parent, there is something I would like to believe, if I could simply decide to: that as a person I matter by my existence alone, not just by virtue of what I can do for others. In the Judaism I recall, the belief in the ultimate value of any human life stems from the notion that we are all made "in God's image". I find Zvika's answer easier to digest: each life matters because each life is, ultimately, part of God itself. I don't know that I believe either of those things, but I am reminded that there is meaning just in the act of contemplating.
I love this question and enjoyed listening to two deep thinkers bat it around, but I can't not state the obvious: you invited a self described "progressive Jewish leader" who failed to use this platform to condemn the genocide of Palestinian people (and from what I've found on the internet continually fails to do so on any other platform). It should go without saying that Israel does not equal Judaism and that the genocide is a purely political atrocity, but there were so many opportunities for Zvika to point out the gross contradiction between Jewish religious beliefs and the genocidal actions of the Israeli state. For instance, what a beautiful and profound definition of Yahweh that God is everything that ever was, is, or will be. So how can Zionists justify the systematic murder of 35,000 people, if they, too, hold the light of God? Where is this ethos of "surrender" amid a state who refuses a ceasefire? What makes this rabbi progressive, if he is not using his platform to promote peace? I wish you had asked these questions.
A very interesting interview! As an non-believer (as in a-theist, not necessarily anti-theist) coming from a secular upbringing it is fascinating to hear about the type of mental gymnastics people go through to square religious beliefs (and practises and upbringing) with reality.
The part about a god not being present, even in a very religious childhood, was new to me, but made perfect sense. I see it as the minds way to deal with cognitive dissonance.
I don’t know how accessible he is, but I think Neal Brennan would be an excellent guest to talk to on this subject. He’s been on both sides of the fence and I, for one, would be fascinated to hear a conversation between you two.