How am I supposed to find new music now that I'm old and irrelevant?

An investigation from a geriatric millenial

Hello Searchers,

We have a new episode for you: How am I supposed to find new music now that I’m old and irrelevant?

Amazon Podcasts / Apple Podcasts

We get a real answer, some news you can use. But it’s also an excuse to have a twisty, digressive conversation with one of my favorite writers, Kelefa Sanneh. Kelefa has written about music and culture for over two decades. He’s at The New Yorker these days.  He’s also the author of one of my favorite books of the past couple years, Major Labels: A History of Popular Music in Seven Genres. If you want to get a sense of what that book feels like, Kelefa published an excerpt in the New Yorker called The Education of a Part-Time Punk.

This episode of Search Engine was actually the first interview we recorded for the show. It happened back in February, when we thought this was for a show called Weekly.

Let us know what you think. Extras for this episode are at the very bottom of the email, as usual. We’ve got some good ones this week — Spotify playlists of music you might like from Kelefa Sanneh, from Search Engine’s Noah John, and from me, whose music taste is so questionable I’m using a podcast to try to solve it.

conceptual schematic drawing for a podcast that is being released weekly in the style of da vinci's notebook / midjourney

How this episode fits into how we’re thinking about this show

We are testing a theory at Search Engine that audiences prefer shows that come out weekly instead of shows that come out “when they feel like it.” This theory is based mainly off of emails I’ve received on shows I’ve made in the past. The feedback I’ve gotten is that listeners feel like, “either you’re there for me when I do my laundry or you’re not.” Nobody adores a flaky laundry companion. 

So this year with Search Engine, we’re teaching ourselves how to make a show that’s there for you most Fridays. 

Our strategy for now is that we’ll give you a mix of episodes. Some like last week’s story about airline coffee, which take a while to research. And some like this one, where we build the whole story around one conversation with someone we really love talking to*. 

Episodes like this week’s are exciting for me because long-form conversation podcasts are some of my favorites. The first public radio show I ever loved enough to seek out was Fresh Air with Terry Gross. I still listen. Lately, my ear’s been more drawn to that sort of show than to the reported and narrated ones. I also really dig The Ezra Klein Show. 

I’ve even been enjoying interview podcasts from the non-public-radio-adjacent world. Work from people like Rich Roll and Tim Ferris. I’m curious how they make conversations compelling for their audiences, and what Search Engine can learn from them. 

I can’t do exactly what any of these above-mentioned people do, but we’re trying to find our version of the interview-driven episode. I’d love to hear what you think of it. Drop your comments on the page for this Substack, or shoot us an email. 

A bit more about our guest, Kelefa Sanneh

There’s a version of a podcast I would make where I just talked to Kelefa every week. He’s one of my favorite thinkers, I find him to be completely unpredictable in the best way. He’s one of the people who, when something strange happens in the world that I’m not sure how to feel about it, I like to check in with. 

Besides his book, you can also just find him in the New Yorker, where, from issue to issue, he jumps around pretty fantastically between topics. A story about the TV show where men slap each other real hard, a profile of Kim Petras, a report on the Christian Nationalism movement. 

What you can do to help the show

First of all, thanks to everybody who signed up for a paid subscription last week. And if you can’t swing it, please don’t fret. Listening and telling your friends helps, so does reviewing us on Apple Podcasts. Or on Spotify. Anyway, don’t worry, we’re going to figure it out. 

And thanks for the nice notes people sent in. Specifically, I want to say hi to Scott who says he’s listening to Search Engine in the car with a sullen teenager. I also want to apologize to Scott’s teenager in case Search Engine is something he’s enduring instead of enjoying. Search Engine is occasionally partly edited by pre-teens who have surprisingly wonderful barometers for when they feel bored or confused, so if Scott’s teenager likes the show, that might be part of it. 

Extras

Kelefa made a playlist to share, it’s called AGING PUNK.

The playlist is chronological, and all the bands are linked to each other. Here’s Kelefa’s explanation of how:

The Ramones played the Hollywood Palladium with...

The Dickies, who have been covered by Milo Aukerman of...

The Descendents, whose members later formed ALL with Dave Smalley, who also sang with...

Dag Nasty, which emerged from the same Washington, D.C., hardcore scene as...

Fugazi, which played a big London show with...

Leatherface, which recorded a split with Hot Water Music, just like...

Alkaline Trio, which lent its singer to...

blink-182, which toured the U.K. with...

The Front Bottoms, who took part in Kevin Devine's “Devinyl Splits” series, alongside...

John K. Samson, who says, “I still think of myself as punk.”

We also have a playlist from Search Engine’s Noah John, who hosts the popular hip-hop TikTok channel Without Warning.

Also I’m going to share my Spotify playlist of the songs I like that I maintain for myself. Forewarning it’s … not very curated, and my taste, everyone agrees, is pretty spotty, and I’m not going to try to make it cooler or better for the internet. But if you for some reason want to know what a podcaster is listening to musically, here you go. I’m using this as a duplicate for my liked songs playlist, so it’ll keep growing.  

Thanks everybody, we’ll see you next week, 

PJ

*There’s actually a third kind of episode we’re trying to make, you’ll hear an example of that kind of episode next week. I’d tell you more but I needlessly enjoy surprises.